BGGB v1.5

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Sunchaser
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BGGB v1.5

Post by Sunchaser » September 3rd, 2014, 4:42 pm

I have finished a first version of the new BGGB house rules: http://ti3pbf.com/wiki/BGGB_House_Rules_(v1.5)
There are only changes to the clarifications and other house rules section, the basic rules stay the same.

Changes are marked in red and include the following:
- Yellow tech specialties now count for objectives. Tech specialties in your own HS do not count, however.
- All cards and abilities that cause damage before the first round of combat, cause that damage immediately and give not return fire.
- Unsupported Advanced Fighters count as non-fighter ships, e.g. for objectives.

Please take a look at the current version and let me know what you think. Shaun was busy lately and had no time to double check my edits. If you spot mistakes or something that sound contrary to what Shaun or I said we were going to add to the rules, please let me know.

Suggestions are most welcome, especially if you think there is an imbalance. I think marsman57 and Zhe Tiny had some, so feel free to share them here.

rorshocker told me he had an idea for the Racial Objectives. As they are used in other games, the discussion on that should probably get its own thread. Small fixes to the objectives (e.g. Jol-Nar's Xenotech Research, which has become easier now) can still go here, though.
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by brunoreturns » September 3rd, 2014, 5:04 pm

Sunchaser wrote:- Yellow tech specialties now count for objectives. Tech specialties in your own HS do not count, however.
Meaning that Arborec's tech specialty no longer counts for objectives?
Sunchaser wrote:- Unsupported Advanced Fighters count as non-fighter ships, e.g. for objectives.
Only for objectives, or does that apply to Space Mines as well?
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Sunchaser
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by Sunchaser » September 3rd, 2014, 5:46 pm

brunoreturns wrote:
Sunchaser wrote:- Yellow tech specialties now count for objectives. Tech specialties in your own HS do not count, however.
Meaning that Arborec's tech specialty no longer counts for objectives?
Correct.
brunoreturns wrote:
Sunchaser wrote:- Unsupported Advanced Fighters count as non-fighter ships, e.g. for objectives.
Only for objectives, or does that apply to Space Mines as well?
The full text is:
Ship (Definition)
When a card requires the destruction of a ship or winning a space battle against a certain number ships while not explicitly stating that these be non-fighter ships, it is assumed that non-fighter are meant nonetheless. Any unsupported Advanced Fighters (i.e., that count toward Fleet Supply) are treated as non-fighter ships for all purposes; e.g., space mines, objectives, etc. However, Advanced Fighters are still considered fighters when an effect specifically refers to fighters, e.g., Friendly Fire AC.
So, yes, also space mines.
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by jpsuchecki » September 4th, 2014, 2:59 am

- All cards and abilities that cause damage before the first round of combat, cause that damage immediately and give not return fire.
so Mentak's ships that get preshots, don't get to shoot in the first round?
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by rorshocker » September 4th, 2014, 5:13 am

The changes look good. I'll start up a racial objective thread in the next day or so.
jpsuchecki wrote:so Mentak's ships that get preshots, don't get to shoot in the first round?
I believe that "return fire" refers to a unit destroyed by a pre-combat shot, not the unit taking the pre-combat shot. The actual text of the revised rule:
BGGB 1.5 wrote:Any card, ability or effect that causes damage before the first round of combat, e.g. the action card Minelayers, Krevvil's ability or the Creuss racial technology Dimensional Splicer, inflicts damage immediately. Destroyed units do not receive return fire.

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Sunchaser
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by Sunchaser » September 4th, 2014, 7:54 am

Correct, "return fire" refers to the destroyed shipds, not the ones firing.
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by jpsuchecki » September 4th, 2014, 8:53 am

Ok, now that I read this again, I understand better. I don't know how I saw that differently earlier.
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by marsman57 » September 4th, 2014, 4:27 pm

I'm not completely fond of the change "Facilities can be built in an opponent's home system.", but I don't really have a compelling reason for it just besides not liking it since it allows other players to do in your HS what you cannot yourself do in your HS.

Here is a potential added rule for consideration:
- When a player is eliminated, he is no longer counted as seated for purposes of "player to the right/player to the left" objectives.

As you may recall, the elimination of Yssaril in BGGB12A made the influence objectives very easily achievable for the neighbors of that power.

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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by Sunchaser » September 4th, 2014, 6:50 pm

marsman57 wrote:Here is a potential added rule for consideration:
- When a player is eliminated, he is no longer counted as seated for purposes of "player to the right/player to the left" objectives.

As you may recall, the elimination of Yssaril in BGGB12A made the influence objectives very easily achievable for the neighbors of that power.
That makes sense. I added it with the small addition of the term "neighbor" which is used on some objectives.
marsman57 wrote:I'm not completely fond of the change "Facilities can be built in an opponent's home system.", but I don't really have a compelling reason for it just besides not liking it since it allows other players to do in your HS what you cannot yourself do in your HS.
My reasoning for this was that restrictions for HSs should only apply to the original owner. However, now that I think about it a bit more, I might reverse this. The problem is that I now feel that it is arbitrary to lift only that particular restriction. If facilities can be built in another player's HS, can the planets also be refreshed by Assembly II secondary? Can Local Unrest be played on it?
I'll have to think about how that would affect the game.
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Re: BGGB v1.5

Post by rorshocker » September 4th, 2014, 7:15 pm

I agree that restrictions on Home Systems should be limited to one's own Home System, not conquered Home System planets. It seems that the purpose of the limitation on facilities and Assembly refresh is to generally avoid all such actions being clustered around one's HS, resulting in camping, and the limitation on ACs and other effects is to avoid an effect on another player that is too powerful.

If that is the purpose of the rule, conquered Home System planets should be treated as any other conquered planet: subject to ACs that are limited to non-HS, facilities can be built, etc.

For example, it seems that the purpose of the restriction of Local Unrest and Spacedock Accident is to protect players from an overpowered AC being played on their HS. I can't see any reason that these cards shouldn't be playable on a conquered HS...

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