AC: Massive Transport

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happygrue
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AC: Massive Transport

Post by happygrue » September 10th, 2015, 12:24 am

I'm curious how others interpret this card. I feel it would allow up to 3 fighters to wander along with the dock, but I can't say I'm sure about that. I had to rule on it in a game and I'm curious what other people would have done.

Here's why I think the fighters can tag along:
  • 1) Saar do it.
    2) The flavor text of the card is: "Engineers mastermind the movement of an entire civilian community and production center." - seems silly to then sweat 3 fighters
    3) The talk of a route existing between the the systems makes me think that the dock moves there whole, so why not bring a (supported) fighter CAP along too?

    and finally

    4) Sigmazero13 (who spends a lot of time with the rules and tends to be fairly conservative about them) came to the same conclusion here.
What do you think?

(note, I don't have the desire to email Cory with every ruling, though it's possible this has been settled before somewhere, I just was curious what other GMs think)

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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by marsman57 » September 10th, 2015, 1:04 am

I say it's a tossup what Corey would say but I'm okay with it.

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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by obsidian_tower » September 10th, 2015, 3:01 am

I seem to recall a big discussion over this card some years ago, though I'm sure it's been lost to the depths of the internet now.

I tend to agree, the Fighters may move. If the FF were supported by a Carrier and the Carrier moved, nobody would suggest that the Fighters have to stay put and be destroyed because their support is no longer there :)

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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by brunoreturns » September 10th, 2015, 4:28 am

I agree, the fighters may move.

It is strange that this issue has never come up in a game that I remember. I see that card played quite often.
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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by evernoob » September 10th, 2015, 7:59 am

I agree the fighters should be allowed move with it.

But how about the Warfare II Secondary (not that people often use it).
You are NOT allowed to pick up ground forces with it, but would you also ban people from taking fighters with their CV? (The card says to move up to two ships, so in theory you should leave your fighters behind...)
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Sunchaser
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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by Sunchaser » September 10th, 2015, 9:33 am

evernoob wrote:But how about the Warfare II Secondary (not that people often use it).
You are NOT allowed to pick up ground forces with it, but would you also ban people from taking fighters with their CV? (The card says to move up to two ships, so in theory you should leave your fighters behind...)
FAQ 2.5 p. 9 wrote:Q: When using the secondary ability of the Warfare II Strategy,
do Fighters that are being transported by Carrier count
against the ship limit?
A: No.
This implies that you can take the FTs along. Otherwise the question would not make much sense.
Based on this ruling I'd agree that the FTs can be moved with the SD when using Massive Transport.
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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by evernoob » September 10th, 2015, 10:24 am

Exactly what I was thinking.
The Warfare II secondary dictates the Massive Transport Ruling.

Also, during movement the fighters are considered to be inside the carriers, but as soon as they arrive in a system they swarm out. Same could be said for Spacedock Capacity.

Lastly you *could* build GF and MU's with your spacedock, and not land them on the planet. A massive transport could then bring those with you.
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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by Arandor » September 10th, 2015, 10:37 am

gm
evernoob wrote:Lastly you *could* build GF and MU's with your spacedock, and not land them on the planet. A massive transport could then bring those with you.
Incorrect. PDS, MU and GF that are produced MUST be placed on the planet.

Base rules, pg. 26:
Ground Force and PDS units are always built and placed on the planet containing the Space Dock.
No option to 'not land them on the planet'.

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happygrue
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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by happygrue » September 10th, 2015, 10:48 am

As I understand it, if you had GF already loaded on a CV they would be moved along with Warfare II secondary as well. But this always drives me nuts, as it seems pointlessly complicated when talking about this level of abstraction. I can't bring some GF along? But... why? This is why I mostly only play SA games now. ;)

But anyway, thanks for the answers. I feel better about my ruling. The card says dock but I just thought it would have been crazy to force FF to stay behind and potentially die while your "Engineers mastermind the movement of an entire civilian community and production center."

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Re: AC: Massive Transport

Post by evernoob » September 10th, 2015, 11:00 am

Warfare II Secondary is very bad.
It CAN be usefull in some very specific cases, but it is highly too situational.

Me and a friend have started building a whole new set of SC's from scratch. We're still in the early design steps though.
The base idea is that all the primaries will be very strong, but the secondaries will all be very unique and powerfull too (and not a watered down version of the primary).
Resulting that picking the SC doesn't only matter for which primary you will get, but also which secondary you WONT have.
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